Interesting discussion on the matter of use digital modes versus CW only in EME operation

Copy of some fragments of EME chats content within last week

-----Original Message-----
From: moon-net-bounces(monkey)mailman.pe1itr.com [mailto:moon-net-bounces(monkey)mailman.pe1itr.com] On Behalf Of DW Harms PA2DW
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 11:31 PM
To: Moon-Bounces; moon-net(monkey)mailman.pe1itr.com
Subject: [Moon-Net] EME in past, now and in the future

Dear radio-friends,

Over the past days I have seen messages on my screen from the EME-reflectors, that I normally only see from the students in the school of which I am principal of. But they are in the range of 16-20 years old with a lot to learn in life and they amuse me sometimes… But the ones I read here, are not all that amusing I must say.

I don’t want to add oil to the fire but I feel an urge to help analyze the problem and see if there is a way out for us all. We simply cannot go on like this…

We first need to split the problem in two major sections I think. One is the competitive issue, the number two is about the obvious difference between CW and Computer Aided  Radio, also known as CAR (new word…)

The competitive issue is not new. In all sports, the use of special tricks and aids are endlessly being subject of discussion. For instance in skating, a sport I very much like to do myself, the use of special suits or skates are always an argument for disqualification. But in the end, the contest committee of these sports always find a way to solve it. Either by creating separate contest category’s , or by saying that everyone should use that new suite or the special skates with less resistance etc.

In our case this issue “hangs” and I feel there is urgent work to do for the contest committee, I believe the one of ARRL in this case. The solution may be simple: create separate sections, or say that everyone should use CAR. My suggestion is to create separate sections for the old fashioned EME work and one for CAR, so that all of us can choose the one we like most.
But old fashioned EME should be absolutely unassisted by computers, no CW-skimming, no MAP65 etc. The point where it gets difficult is whether we allow SDR’s with waterfalls etc. Maybe we should only allow tuning the band by hand…  Anyway, I personally think Barry VE4MA said wise words about MAP65 or CW-skimmer being great assistance and this is exactly what we should solve urgently. It is simply unfair competition if we allow this in one and the same contest category. It is almost like allowing to use dope!...

The second section of our problem concerns about the very obvious difference between CW as decoded by humans and CAR on the other end.
We simply cannot deny the benefits of the work that K1JT has achieved. It is absolutely true that it opened up EME for those that would otherwise never be able to feel the joy of working EME. Also, my personal experience as president of VERON (Dutch radio-society for experimental radio), is that a survey amongst youngsters showed us that young people would be very interested in radio, but ONLY as long as the computer is part of the fun. Hence they like PSK31, RTTY and yes: WSJT! So if we continue to say the computer has to leave the radio shack, we will surely lose the youngsters… And don’t be afraid; they will also use CW once they discover the fun of doing things with your head! But as always in the case of developing the human mind, you first have to go with the flow in order to reach them…
If we don’t do that, we will all end up like the old fisherman in the harbor here at Katwijk aan Zee, who have just one sentence to say “it was better in the old days and youngsters don’t want to work the way we did”. They are wrong and it is up to us to prove it!

Will you join? Ok, lets go to the future J

Best to all,

Dick/ PA2DW



---------- Původní zpráva ----------
Od: F1DUZ <duz(monkey)orange.fr>
Datum: 3. 12. 2013
Předmět: Re: [Moon] Excitement

Change your song , you are losing points at the EME CW CLOWN CONTEST

De :
moon-bounces(monkey)moonbounce.info [mailto:moon-bounces(monkey)moonbounce.info] De la part de Roy Reed
Envoyé : mardi 3 décembre 2013 22:06
À : 'Moon'
Objet : Re: [Moon] Excitement

You call yourselves RADIO AMATEURS no no you are computer amateurs.

                             de g3zig


From: moon-bounces(monkey)moonbounce.info [mailto:moon-bounces(monkey)moonbounce.info] On Behalf Of Simon Lewis
Sent: 03 December 2013 20:17
To: Lars Pettersson; moon(monkey)moonbounce.info
Subject: Re: [Moon] Excitement


Lars….
 
you are clearly not getting the point. And I doubt you ever will.
 
I am not offended by any EME mode - but clearly others like you are and you are making a big noise about something that will not change - too late sorry, whatever you’re view, WSJT is in the wild and in big use. You don’t use it - we get that - you don’t like it - we hear you.
 
I simply ask that you also accept the fact that others have differing ideas of what they find interesting - statements like “ intrested in technik and not intrested in playing with computers” are exactly what I mean. You have to accept there is opposing views too, in democracy that's how it works,  else its not democratic anymore! WSJT does not mean you do not need a radio, antenna, preamp, feeders/feeds. The end decoding is the only piece that changes - but you know that I am sure, but choose to ignore that and only attack WSJT and its creator and users. So I think everyone can see the real argument Lars.
 
And just because you can say anything you feel like - does not mean you should else you are just living up to the views others have formed of you.
 
A CW only group - why not? The CW ops can be happy then that there is no digi modes in discussion - you can arrange your own CW only contests and everyones happy - peace at last for everyone .
 
I just don’t get this constant whining when you don’t even use the mode?!!
 
Unsubscribe - no certainly not - I want to see how much more of a clown you can make yourself 😊
 
LOL
 
 
Sent from Windows Mail
 
From: Lars Pettersson
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎4‎ ‎December‎ ‎2013 ‎9‎:‎15‎ ‎a.m.
To: moon(monkey)moonbounce.info

Do you feel offended by thos that are intrested in technik and not intrested in playing with computers.
Its quite simple there are a Nondemocratic reflector where there are no risk that you will have to see this statments from us Idiots As HB9DRI pointed out..

Simon why should we start a Cw only group????????????????????????????
This reflector was created just for that reason   here you are allowed to say what you like.  If you dont like it ? Unsubscribe

Lars SM4IVE

 

Simon Lewis skrev 2013-12-03 20:25:
That's right Jan
 
So far the only bleating I see is from those attacking the 100’s of stations using digi modes by those who don’t use it anyway!
 
And you know its quite funny … my digi mode station still needs a radio, still needs good preamps and decent antennas …..and the moon!!
 
Quite strange that …..Hmm that's sounds almost like …well…….. moonbounce…. and … shock …..using its using a radio too!!
 
The anti digi mode argument is a lost one … its not going to go away … so please stop the whining and get on and do YOUR thing and leave the digimode crowd to do theirs.
 
You will be able to work those you want and when you want. CW .. digi or whatever mode you choose.
 
It still uses a radio… still uses the moon….. and is still furthering development of amateur radio … might not be YOUR thing …. so be it …. but please …. let those who do find an interest in it to do their own thing without denigrating their efforts…. it is not good amateur spirit, not good for the hobby and to be honest …. small minded and selfish.
 
If its that bad to swallow go start a CW only EME group and then everyone can have some peace!
 
See you on the moon - via ANY mode!
 
Cheers

Simon ZL4PLM
 
 
Sent from Windows Mail
 
From: Johann Bruinier
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎4‎ ‎December‎ ‎2013 ‎7‎:‎16‎ ‎a.m.
To: moon(monkey)moonbounce.info
 
Lasse, CEW-Peter, Dominique, Roy, Jimmy, Wolfgang and other believers in
RADIO technology,

let'em play with their toys and don't waste your precious adrenaline on
them!

Seasons Greetings!

Jan DL9KR
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 SM2CEW wrote:   I only work real EME no chatts no Bagpipes

 CW is King!!!!